So you want to move out of your parents house?

Here are some tips that will help you when you decide to get out on your own.


1. Have enough money to pay first and last months rent, deposit on phone, gas, Electric bill, Internet etc.. It would be good to have about 1500 to 2000 in cash saved up before you even consider moving out. If you have furniture plan on about $200 to rent a truck and many times they require a deposit or a credit card and many times they will not rent to you if you are not at least 21. Two thousand seems like allot but when you hand 6 or 7 hundred to a landlord for the first months rent and you hand him another 6 or 7 hundred for the last months rent and deposit then you only end up with 600 left. If you need to buy a fridge or washer and dryer you could buy used units and save money or save up and buy new ones and then you would need to plan on having more in savings before you move out. You can also go to the laundry matt to wash your cloths like we used to do and take lots of quarters.


1A. If you are not on your parents car insurance plan on paying about 250 to 300 per month for that and add that to your budget and then prefigure how much you will need to make per hour to meet that budget.


2. I will live with friends and save money. This can work sometimes and sometimes it does not work. If you trust the people to pay their share of the rent and utilities each month this can work. Get signed contracts if your the one responsible to pay the landlord and even with these contracts it does not guarantee they will pay you. If you rent a room for say 200 a month know that you will have to share the bathroom most likely and many times things will come up missing (This happened to my son) Other times house parties will keep you up at night when you have to get up early to work (This also happened to my son)


3. Plan on making at least $16 per hour before you plan on moving into an apartment and know that taxes will be 20 to 30% of your check so if you make 16 per hour you will only get about 11 dollars per hour in your paycheck. There are 160 hours work hours a month and 40 a week so that is 1,760 and you have to pay for all your expenses out of that money.


4. When you have a baby you will need to plan on making about $5 to 6  dollars an hour more than you were making before just to cover, insurance, diapers, food and doctor visits. The National figure is higher than 500. If you plan on having the baby in a daycare or child care figure on the need to pay an extra 620 dollars per month to the daycare and this means you will need to make an extra 6 per hour or it means that 6 per hour of your or your spouses income will go to pay daycare. Having mom stay home is a good way to save on daycare but in today’s world is less common than before.


5. On the sample budget I only put 600 per month for rent which is low and most likely not in a great area so you may want to adjust this after finding an area and a good apartment. If you have a friend to share the rent with that is great but if sign a lease remember that if one of you can’t pay it messes the whole situation up so it is best to only rent a place that you know you can afford.


6. Water and garbage charges are many times paid by the landlord on apartments but you will want to check into this and make sure. Gas (Heat) is less in apartments and more in homes an obviously more in the winter. Electric depends on your usage and it will vary also so ask the landlord what the average gas and light bills were. (Many of them will know) When you sign up with Questar and Rocky Mountain Power they will also give you the average usage so you can plan your monthly bills and adjust the numbers accordingly. So what I am saying is, check it out and change the budget to match your individual situation and then redo the numbers so you know how much you have to make per hour to have enough to pay your bills.


7. If you know you need 2000 dollars a month with your budget then figure out how much before taxes so you know how much per hour you will need to make to end up with 2000 after they take taxes out. Here is the example: You need 2000 a month so take 18 dollars an hour times 160 hours a month and that is $2,880 and after taxes (30%) it comes to $2,016  (If you take 2880 times .7 or 70% that will give you what is left after taxes) So if you make 18 per hour then you could meet this 2000 dollar monthly budget and if you only make 15 per hour you can’t meet this budget so you either get a different job, more job training, a degree or lower your bills by cutting the cable, internet, lowing your other bills or taking the bus instead of having a car.


8. How much should I plan on to have a car? Ok this answer will vary a bit depending on the car you get. Your insurance will also be higher when your young, higher when your a young male and lower when you get married and have a family. So plan on about $200 to $300 for car insurance unless your on your parents policy and then you can plan on about $120 or so. Full coverage will cover your car if it is damaged and the other cars in the accident. Liability only will only cover the other car and not your repairs. This is hard if you depend on the car to get you to work so you may want to spend a bit more for full coverage. Many car loans require it.


Insurance 120 to 300 depending on your situation


Car Payment 200 depending on the car. If someone will co-sign a loan with you then you might be able to get a loan. Credit Unions normally have lower interest rates than the car lots so be careful and ask your parents advice.

Many times you will need to have repairs done on a used car and if you bought a new car the payment will be closer to $400 per month.


Most of the time you will need tires every one to three years depending on how you treat the car, how you break and if you bought good tires to start out with. You can buy $50 dollar tires and then have them balanced and put on so you spend $300 total for all four tires but know and REMEMBER THIS…….YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR….. so if you buy a more expensive tire they will last longer. Also know that if your alignment is screwed up that your tires will wear out faster and you will end up paying for it later so it will help you in the long run to take care of your car by maintaining it.

Oil changes and new tires plan on about $35 every 3 to 4 months or every 4000 miles or so depending on your car and then plan on about 35- $50 per month to put into your tire/oil change fund. Separte this money so when the need comes up you will have the money.


So adding this up you can spend 200 to 300 on the  payment, 35-100  maint, 150 gas, 200 a month insurance so you can easily spend $600 per month on just your CAR and that is not a new one. If it is new plan on about 800 to 1000 a month. So if you need 600 a month for your car plan on spending about 5 dollars out of every hour you work on your car. So if you earn 8 dollars an hour and 2.40 of that is tax you end up with 5.60 a hour and if you have a car you are left with 96 dollars a month after you pay everything associated with your car. (Don’t forget to add the annual tax, license and emissions fees charged by the state you live in) Newer cars have higher fees but older cars have more expenses and repairs so you will end up paying either way.


You will see from the budget that I may seem low on some of the figures and maybe high on others. That is why you should sit down with your parents or another adult and ask them what they pay for things. Depending on your neighborhood, lifestyle, job and attitudes your budget will be different. Some people change their own oil and save the money doing it. Other people would rather spend that time doing something else and pay someone else to change their oil. Example: If you make 18 dollars an hour at work and you can pay someone else $10 a hour to do something for you to save an hour then you could work an extra hour and be ahead. Some people think they are saving when they are really spending.


So if you spend 5 dollars an hour of the money you make on your car and another 5 dollars an hour of the money you make on your baby and another 6 dollars an hour of the money you make on daycare for your baby that adds up to 16 per hour without figuring in any housing, health insurance, cable, internet, phone, buying new things like TVs etc…. It is best to save up for those things and buy them all at once rather than putting them on a credit card.


If you charge 2000 on a credit card an only pay the min $60 per month it will take you over 15 years to pay that credit card off and you will end up paying way over double what you borrowed. Most credit card interest rates are around 22.85 % and if you pay it off every month completely then you build your credit and avoid the interest charges. You need to build a credit history by making regular payments and paying it off every month and that will help you gain credit but if you abuse it then you won’t qualify to buy a home or your interest rate will end up being high and costing you much more. Talk to your parents about these things before you move out.


Learn to cook so you can eat healthy and save money. Ask you mom to help you learn, spend time in the kitchen with her or with your dad and learn all you can from them before you move out. If your 15 now don’t think you will wait till your 18 to learn these things because before you know it you will be too busy to spend time with them and you will be moved out and not have the knowledge you need and you will end up eating boring food all the time or spending too much on take out fast food. (Besides then you will end up gaining a bunch of weight and getting heavy so learn to cook now while your young)


Apply for lots of grants and scholarships. One of our neighbors got 10 of them but she applied for many more and now she has a full ride at the U of U because she applied for these scholarships and grants. If you go to school you will be able to get a good job and make much more money. If you work on a construction site now and you make say 15 an hour and work your way up to 17 or so don’t fool yourself, it wears your body out and if you get laid off you need to have an alternate plan and that should not be “Do you want fries with that”.  GO TO COLLEGE.


You see we as parents want you to learn from our mistakes so you don’t make the same ones we did. The kids end up telling us that they want to learn from their own mistakes and that is fine but if you can avoid some of them life will be better.


I firmly believe guys and girls should live on their own for a while before getting married. This will help you learn responsibility and be independent. Going on a Church mission for 2 years will help you learn to live away from your family as well and so will military service or Job Corp. So if you took time to read this and your a teen then I commend you because most teens won’t get through the first few paragraphs. Good luck and have a great life and remember if you fail to plan you plan to fail.  Work will win when wishy washy wishing won’t.


When you start college sit with a guidance counselor and go over your plan of how many credits you need for your degrees and list out all the classes you need, the cost per credit hour, what the books will cost and make a plan of action to get there. Sometimes you can decide to take certain classes like Anthropology 1010 and I found that this class will meet the requirements for many different degrees so this is a good one to take if you decide to change your degree you may save yourself some time. There are classes that you can take at SLCC comunity college that will transfer to the University and there are other classes that will not transfer so make your plan assuming you may need to transfer those credits . Getting college credits in high school can save you money later for college. Grants and scholarships are helpful and you can also buy used books some of the time rather than new.


When you finish a class you can also sell your books to recoup part of the cost. Sit down  with someone that is currently in college and talk to them about this and the cost etc…. Also know that there are people that spend years to get their degree only to find out that what they got the degree in won’t really help them in the job field or it won’t help them make that much more money so pick a degree that has jobs that are in demand. Example: Business Management MBA or a Masters in Utah is hard to use since there are so many people with them. If you leave Utah and move to another state then this degree is helpful but know that if you are buying a small home here in Utah for 1200 a month that same size home in California will be over 2000 a month. Everything costs more there. It is true wages are higher but so is the cost of living.


Don’t forget to include Christmas in your budget, I did not do so but planning ahead with it will help you stay out of debt. If you can try to stay out of debt except for your home that would be the very best. Many people get caught in the credit card trap and the interest is what really kills you. Rather than charging something on your credit card, save up and buy it outright.




Monthly Yearly

Gross Income     Before any deductions

Net Income      After Taxes

Monthly Taxes     Depending on your situation it could be 20 or 35%

Expected Tax refund divided by 12     Don’t plan on this money to live, in fact it is best to try to

come out even or having to pay rather then getting money

Total usable income     back.


Monthly Yearly Notes

Rent or house payment 600   Tax deduction on interest may help here & home bus costs

repairs , car & hm – contingency 30   Plan on more to keep a home up.

Yearly home taxes divided by 12     Add if you are buying a home if renting ignore this

Health Insurance –  100   Family plans are about $300 to $700 per month

Natural Gas 50   This cost is lower in an apartment and higher in a home

Electric Bill 50   Also lower in an apartment and higher in a home

Phone Bill 0   Took this out since you have a cell phone

Internet charges or cell phone 35   If you have both then add them or adjust the figure

Water 15   Higher cost in a home especially with more people

Garbage     This varies from city to city and apartment may pay it

Taxes for car divided by 12 33   Depending on the year of your car

Oil changes for car divided by 12 35

Car Insurance 117   Depends on your age, accidents and tickets you have could be 300

Gas for car 150

Car Payment or repair fund 200   If you have a car payment make another fund for repairs

Life Insurance 25

Credit Card 1 0   Best to pay these off each month see notes

Credit Card 2 0

RC Willey     Best to pay this off each month as well.


Bus pass or movies entertainment dates 30

Hair Cuts 16   This could be nails or a hair cut

Food from store 100   About 100 per person if you cook or much more eating out

Eating out 46   This is just a few times a month

Lunches 100   This is only 5 per day on work days

Clothes & Shoes 50

Medicine 10   If you don’t need it save it for a just in case fund

Vacation Fund

Charity Donations, Church etc….


School payments on loans, books etc..     If you add other items re-do the budget

Total 1792


This is living single not in a family  1792

If you need 1792 you need this before tax 2560 This is equal to 16 per hour living alone


Now if your only making 10 you need to cut expenses by not having a car etc…..


If you have a credit card balance of 2000 and you make only min monthly payments you can pay it off in 15 years but you

end up paying about 5000 to borrow 2000. It is best to stay out of debt except for a home, possibly school and maybe a car


If you make 10 per hour and FICA is almost 7 percent and other taxes are about 22 then plan on getting 7 out of 10 on your check

This means if payday is every two weeks then instead of getting 800 every two weeks you get only $560 or 1120 per month

As you can see from the above budget making 10 per hour will not allow you to live on your own in an apartment


If you live with a wife or husband then add more food and additional costs on insurance etc…..

If you have a baby then plan on about 500 dollars more per month to pay insurance, diapers, doctor and food

Getting an additional 500 means you have to make amost 5 per hour more which is 800 minus tax is 560

If the husband is going to be the only one working with a baby so the wife can avoid babysitter cost then plan on making

at least 22 dollars an hour to pay for the extra costs of the wife and baby.


California rent, food and gas cost much more than here in Salt Lake and New York costs even more

So you can see that to make 22 dollars an hour most of the time you need to have a college degree or have two people

making 11 per hour so start planning and looking for jobs that can support a family and working at a Pizza shop won’t.


I hope this was worth reading…….

So your going to get your drivers permit?

Attention 14 and 15 year olds, you will want to read this entire note if you plan on getting a car anytime soon:


Start thinking about car insurance and other items such as oil changes and buying tires if you plan on getting a drivers license. Start looking for a good part time job.


If your parents add you to their insurance, a 16 year old will cost about 92 to 150 per month for full coverage. The cost will vary with the type of cars, trucks and the years. Check with your agent for exact rates


If you have really good grades sometimes this will lower your rates so have your parents check with your insurance agent to see it they get discounts for good grades.


If you get your own insurance it will depend on the car and whether it is just liability or full coverage but if your not on your parents policy then plan on about 250 to 300 a month.


Liability insurance = pays for the costs to fix the other guys car but not your car. (This is required by law) Keep in mind if you depend on your car to get to work then this option may not be the best for you unless your car is an older junker car.


Full coverage = pays to fix your car and the other car you hit (costs more)


The coverage can include medical expenses and there are different deductibles. Example: If your side window gets broken and it costs 300 to fix it and your deductible is $500 then you should just fix it yourself. If it costs $600 then you pay the first $500 and the insurance pays the extra $100. You can talk to your agent about having a lower deductible and have them figure out that rates according to your needs. If you have a really expensive stereo system in your car you may want to add extra coverage for that.


Girls normally don’t have as high of rates as boys. (Check with your agent) Do some calling around. Also make sure you decide on a reputable agency. If you get really great rates but when you need the agent you don’t get service then it might not be the best choice.


If you get into an accident your insurance can go up. Years ago I got a ticket and I already had 2 others and my insurance went up like 60 something a month. I went to traffic school and when I finally got them off my record the rates went back down but many times you have to talk to your agent to make sure that happens.


Always pay your speeding tickets, parking tickets or moving violations on time because if you don’t many times the costs can go really high. One of my employees got a ticket in Park City and it was like $25 dollars and he did not pay it and it went up to $450 in a few months.


Tickets in school zones can be over 200 depending on how fast you are going and this will add points to your record and not the good kind.


A neighbor got a ticket and did not pay it and she was also driving without insurance and when she got pulled over they impounded the car. She had to pay almost 1200 to get the car out of the impound lot. Now her insurance is much higher because she is considered high risk.


The lesson here is not to get into the high risk category. Keep your grades up and your insurance rates low. Don’t text while driving and keep the radio volume low enough so you can hear sirens and horns from other cars. Slow down in the rain and snow and make sure everyone in the car has their seat belts on.


Rates on your parents policy $117 times 12 = 1404  a year


Rate on your own policy $300 times 12 = $3,600 a year (be nice to your parents)


Now add tires (about 25-44 per month is a good estimate), oil changes every 4000 miles or so or plan on $13 per month so you have the money in 3-4 months.


Estmated costs for your car per month:

Car Payment on a midsize newer used car in good condition $200 —– Payment on a new car $300-400

Car insurance $117 to $300 depending on the type, your age, your tickets etc….

Oil changes $13 ($35-$40 every 3-4 months) Replace air filters, fuel filters and other items every so often as well

Gas per month $100 to $200 depending on how far you are driving

Car repairs – If you bought a used car then put aside money for repairs every month so you will have it when needed


Plan on a low end cost of $430 per month and a high end cost of $913 if it is a new car payment


With that in mind if you make $10 dollars per hour then you end up with about $7 or $7.50 per hour after taxes

So if you are working full time 40 hours a week you will get a gross check every 2 weeks of $800 or $1600 per month

Understand that taxes will reduce this down to about $1200 per month


If you get $1200 per month then pay $430 for your car you have $770 left over which is not enough to move out  on your own and pay RENT ($500-800), Food ($200 or so), Insurance and all the other items I mentioned in my other note where I explain what you will need to move out on your own.


Part time at $10 per hour – say 20 hours a week is $800 gross per month or $600 NET leaving you $170 left over minus your cell phone bill leaves you just over a hundred a month to go on dates, movies and buy clothes.


Now if you’re working a min wage job 20 hours a week making almost $8 or say $8 per hour then your gross is $640 and your take home after taxes is around $480 leaving you $50 left over. So now you might want to save up for a while and get a good used car so you don’t have a $200 dollar car payment each month so then you will only be concerned about putting gas, insurance, tires and oil changes into the budget.


When you get a full time job before you move out rather than blowing this $770 extra  each month, put some of it away so you will have savings when you move out on your own. If you have enough to put down first and last months rent, deposits for GAS (to heat the apartment) deposit on the phone and deposits on the Electric bill then you can also have money to get cable, dish, Internet etc….



This is the car Jr wants but the insurance is like $700 per month…..

Deseret News article fact or fiction immigration facts

Maybe you’ve heard the debates on talk radio or seen the e-mail blasts, arriving with increasing urgency as people take sides over Arizona’s new immigration law.

You can hardly turn on your computer without tripping over statistics like these: “Every day, illegal aliens murder 12 Americans” and “$200 billion a year in suppressed American wages are caused by illegal aliens.”

Or you may have heard some of these claims: “Illegal immigrants cause most of the crime and drug problems here. They don’t pay taxes. They crowd our schools.”

With immigration reform on the horizon, the Deseret News set out to see if we could confirm or debunk what’s being said. Try to get to the bottom of the data, though, and you often find yourself going in circles, finding figures quoted and requoted with no actual source. There are conflicting studies that lump together illegal and legal immigrants without distinguishing between the two. There are reports with outdated numbers and sometimes no real numbers at all. There are government reports, academic studies and statements by groups that have a clear agenda, either for or against illegal immigrants. The claims can inflame the debate, even though many make no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants and aim vitriol at anyone of Hispanic descent. Others have little to no basis in reality. And yet, some of the claims and statistics regarding immigration are driving the push for reform and could end up influencing legislation and the fate of tens of thousands of Utahns and millions of Americans.

So how much of what is being said is fact, and how much is fiction?

Here’s what we found.

WHAT YOU HEAR: Illegal immigrants cause most local crime, crowding prisons.

WHAT WE FOUND: A just-completed study seems to refute that and show how wrong perceptions by whites can be. It was conducted by the Consortium for Police Leadership in Equity and looked at crime by all Hispanics in Salt Lake City over five years. It did not single out those who are illegal immigrants.

That study found that whites thought Latinos caused about half of local drug crime. In reality, they caused 27 percent, less than expected, given they account for 28 percent of the city’s population. It did not single out those who are here illegally.

Whites also thought Latinos caused about half of all violent crime. Data showed that they actually caused about 26 percent of it.

Whites blamed Latinos for just over a third of all identity theft, figuring illegals use stolen Social Security numbers to work. The study said Latinos are responsible for 17 percent of identity theft.

Again, those numbers are for all Hispanics, not just illegal immigrants. Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank has suggested looking at prison populations to figure how many criminals are undocumented aliens.

U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics data show that in 2008, about 4 percent of prisoners in Utah were illegal immigrants — about the same percentage as in the overall population. In 2007, about 3.6 percent of prisoners were undocumented.

Meanwhile, many specific claims about illegal aliens and crime on the Internet seem to lack credible sources. Such claims include that 12 Americans are killed each day by an illegal immigrant, 13 Americans are killed every day by uninsured drunken illegal immigrant drivers and “nearly one million sex crimes” have been committed by illegal immigrants in America.

Often cited as a source for “12 Americans killed each day by illegals” is a 2006 letter from Rep. Steve King of Iowa in which he makes this claim but cites no source.

King’s letter is also quoted as a source for the claim that 13 Americans killed each day by illegal immigrants driving drunk. It quoted an article in, which says a AAA Foundation for Traffic study “found 20 percent of fatal accidents involve at least one driver who lacks a valid license.”

Go to that study, however, and it turns out that these are “suspended, revoked or otherwise invalid licenses,” not necessarily fake licenses of illegal immigrants.

The claim that illegal immigrants have committed 1 million sex crimes is equally dubious. It comes from a 2008 article called “The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration” by Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, who runs a website called Violent Crimes Institute. Schurman-Kauflin, a popular television personality,says she’s analyzed 1,500 sex crime cases in 36 states, profiling aberrant sex crimes, sadistic murders, serial rapes and murders, stalking, abductions, and other unusual cases for police around the world.

She explains: “Based on population numbers of 12 million illegal immigrants and the fact that young males make up more of this population than the general U.S. population, sex offenders in the illegal immigrant group make up a higher percentage. When examining ICE reports and public records, it is consistent to find sex offenders making up 2 percent of illegals apprehended. Based on this 2 percent figure, which is conservative, there are approximately 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States.” She then multiplied that times an average of four victims per sex offender to come up with the “million sex crimes” figure.

The glitch here is that 2 percent of illegals apprehended is not the same as 2 percent of all illegal immigrants.

Along and near the Arizona border, a high-profile murder of a rancher in March and the shooting of a Pinal County deputy last month have both been blamed on illegal immigrants.

But according to FBI Uniform Crime Reports and statistics provided by police agencies, as reported by the Arizona Republic, crime rates in Nogales, Douglas, Yuma and other Arizona border towns have been flat for the past decade, even as drug-related violence has heightened in nearby Mexico. Statewide, rates of violent crime are down.

In 2000, there were 23 rapes, robberies and murders in Nogales, Ariz. Last year, despite nearly a decade of growth, there were 19 such violent crimes. Aggravated assaults dropped by one-third. No one has been murdered in two years.

Nogalas, Ariz., Assistant Police Chief Roy Bermudez said during an interview with the Republic in May, “You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Ariz., is one of the safest places to live in all of America.”

WHAT YOU HEAR: Illegal immigrants are taking away jobs.

WHAT WE FOUND: The Pew Hispanic Center reports that fewer than 5 percent of the nation’s 148 million workers are illegal immigrants, about 5.8 percent in Utah. From there, it gets murky because other statistics don’t differentiate between legal and illegal workers.

So you’re left with numbers like these: The number of foreign-born immigrants employed in Utah increased 54 percent in Utah between 2000-07, from 85,267 to 131,318, according to the Census Bureau. Utah’s civilian labor force was close to 1.4 million in January 2009, according to data by the Economic Development Corporation of Utah. In 2007, foreign-born immigrants represented 10 percent of Utah’s civilian workforce, the Census said. Census data also shows that immigrants tend to have more of the lower-paying jobs, probably because they account for 42 percent of the workers with no high school education. Immigrants account for 20 percent of all low-wage full-time workers in Utah but only 5 percent of highly paid workers. Nationally, Census data show that 17 million less-educated Americans work in occupations where immigrants are heavily represented, such as building, cleaning and maintenance.

Of immigrant workers in Utah in 2007, about a third were naturalized U.S. citizens and two-thirds were noncitizens (some here legally, others not).

While a sizable number of immigrant workers are in Utah, it’s debatable how many jobs they may have taken from others. Although Utah unemployment is now running about 7.4 percent, until recently, Utah had very nearly “full employment,” meaning just about anybody could get a job. In fact, that’s been true for nearly 20 years.

Nationally, however, economist Howard Sum, director of labor market studies at Northeastern University in Boston, contends the large supply of immigrants has displaced low-skilled U.S.-born workers. “About 85.5 of 100 new workers are new immigrants in this decade,” Sum points out. “At no time in the last 60 years have we come close to this. They’re really displacing young workers at a very high rate.” But Sum concedes that losing immigrant labor would lead to a decline in the labor force of 3 to 4 percent, slowing growth. Again, he’s talking about all immigrants.

Gordon H. Hanson, an economist at the University of California-San Diego, in a 2009 study for the Migration Policy Institute calls illegal immigration’s impact on the U.S. economy “negligible.” The possible harm, he said, is limited to low-skilled workers. Harvard economist George Borjas says the cross-border movement, legal or not, does depress wages for those low-skilled workers, but it also keeps consumer prices low and helps employers make a profit. He estimates native workers lose $278 billion in wages while employers gain $300 billion.

WHAT YOU HEAR: Illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes.

WHAT WE FOUND: They pay sales taxes and property taxes. (They are hard to escape by anyone who buys anything or owns real estate.) The trouble may come with income taxes.

Many people, including some undocumented workers, are paid in cash “under the table” for work without any income taxes being withheld. We could find no reliable estimates about how many may do so.

However, government data show that millions of illegal immigrants do pay at least some income taxes, including those who use fake names and Social Security numbers.

The Social Security Administration has estimated about three-quarters of illegal workers have taxes for Social Security and Medicare taken out of their paychecks — programs in which they cannot legally participate unless they become legal residents.

The Social Security Administration says these payments actually help keep Social Security solvent because they pay in but can take nothing out legally. It’s estimated that in 2005, about $9 billion in Social Security taxes was paid by people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which could include undocumented workers. The IRS inspector general estimated about 4 percent of all W2 forms have such mismatched data.

The inspector noted that the IRS is required by law to accept W2s with such problems. Former IRS commissioner Mark Everson told Congress in 2006, “Our job is to make sure that everyone who earns income within our borders pays the proper amount of taxes, even if they may not be working here legally.”

For immigrants who cannot legally obtain a Social Security number but still owe income taxes, the IRS issues a nine-digit Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN). It is not valid for identification outside of the tax system, but critics say they are still used to open bank accounts or obtain loans.

The IRS inspector general said in 2006, employers filed 790,000 W2 forms using ITINs improperly to report wages totaling more than $9.5 billion. Everson warned Congress in 2006 that if the IRS pushes too hard to go after these people, it “may have the effect of driving certain economic activities ‘underground.’ At least now, we are collecting some taxes in these areas.”

Last year, the IRS inspector general found that people who may be illegal immigrants collected almost $1.8 billion in “additional child tax credit,” including as much as $60 million paid out fraudulently to individuals using more than one tax identification number.

WHAT YOU HEAR: Americans spend billions to educate children who are here illegally and crowd our schools.

WHAT WE FOUND: According to the Congressional Budget Office in December 2007, about 4 percent of the school-age population nationally is made up of children who are undocumented immigrants.

An S&P Study quoted in Hispanic News put the cost to educate roughly 1.8 million undocumented children at about $11.2 billion, assuming the average was $7,500 a child. Other estimates that add in the cost to educate the undocumented children and the American citizen children born to illegal immigrants puts the number as high as $25 billion.

A Perryman Group report in 2008 emphasizes that illegal immigrant contributions through taxes of various types far exceeds that amount. But experts agree that state and local governments can legitimately note that they bear the costs and the federal government makes the money.

No data is available about immigration status of students in Utah. Supreme Court rulings have said that all children living in America have a right to attend public schools.

It’s unlikely that Hispanic illegal immigrants are crowding most of Utah’s public schools, given that about one in seven (14.7 percent) of the children enrolled are Hispanic, according to Utah Board of Education data.

However, in some places, that is much higher. In fact, 42 individual public schools around the state have student populations that have a Hispanic majority. Those numbers say nothing about legal vs. illegal Hispanics, however.

WHAT YOU HEAR: Billions of dollars a year are spent on Medicaid for illegal immigrants.

WHAT WE FOUND: Federal law prohibits undocumented immigrants from enrolling in Medicaid and CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program), although Medicaid will cover a medical emergency. How much money this costs taxpayers is unclear, since some states, including Utah, don’t ask the immigration status of people whose emergency is covered by Medicaid.

Other states, such as California, do ask. California’s costs alone for Medicaid to undocumented immigrants (for emergency care, including hospital births for pregnant undocumented women) came to nearly $1 billion in 2003, according to Lisa Gray, spokesperson for the California Department of Health Care Services.

Emergency care is defined as services related to preservation of life, prevention of disability or alleviation of severe pain.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 13 states provide state-funded medical coverage for undocumented pregnant women and four states (Illinois, New York, Washington, the District of Columbia) provide state-funded medical coverage for all children, including those in the country illegally.

Again, some states don’t ask the citizenship status of the women and children applying for aid, so it’s hard to come up with solid numbers on the money spent.

A specific claim quoted widely on the Internet that $2.5 billion a year is spend by Medicaid for illegal immigrants comes from Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, which defines itself as “animated by a low-immigration, pro-immigrant vision of an America that admits fewer immigrants but affords a warmer welcome for those who are admitted.”

Camarota says the $2.5 billion — actually a 2002 figure; he says he will be coming out with an updated number — refers mostly to the federal Medicaid dollars spent on children born in the U.S. to illegal-immigrant mothers. Since these children are actually citizens — anyone born in the U.S. is — one could argue that his figure isn’t applicable. But Camarota counters that he is referring not to money spent on illegal immigrants but money spent on illegal immigration.

Camarota comes up with his dollar figure based on the estimate of undocumented immigrants multiplied by the average amount spent per Medicaid patient depending on age and disability (a number that comes from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey).

But because so much of the data about undocumented workers is also undocumented, their total health care costs to taxpayers (Medicaid plus government-sponsored free clinics, unpaid hospital bills) is an estimate.

WHAT YOU HEAR: Illegal immigrants clog hospital emergency rooms and don’t pay for services received.

WHAT WE FOUND: The General Accountability Office, a research arm of Congress, tried in 2004 to look at the effect of illegal immigrants on emergency rooms but concluded that “Hospitals generally do not collect information on their patients’ immigration status,” so an accurate assessment of their effect on hospital costs “remains elusive.”

In Utah, hospitals don’t track the immigration status of patients, says Jill Vicory of the Utah Hospital Association, including those who show up at the emergency room in labor or for some other emergency care. By federal law, all hospitals are required to assess everyone who shows up at an emergency room but are only required to treat those actually having an emergency,

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, undocumented immigrants are less likely than citizens to use emergency rooms. Kaiser’s source for this statistic is a 2005 article in the “American Journal of Public Health.” The article discusses immigrant health care costs but makes no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants, so it’s not clear why Kaiser added the “particularly” statement.

A 2006 study in the journal Health Affairs reported that total health care costs for non-elderly illegal immigrants was $6.5 billion (extrapolated from a Los Angeles survey of 2,000 families), 17 percent of which was paid for by public sources. It also found that per capita medical spending for illegal immigrant men was 39 percent that of native-born men and for women was about half of what native women spend. The cost to each taxpaying American, the researchers determined, was $11 for each illegal immigrant. A 2009 report by the National Center on Immigration Integration Policy found that 69 percent of undocumented immigrants do not have health insurance from employers.

There has been an increase in uncollected payments for care at University of Utah hospitals and clinics, as well an increase in charity care, says U. spokesman Chris Nelson, who adds that “care for non-U.S. citizens is part of that, but not all if it, and probably not even a majority of it.”

WHAT YOU HEAR: “Illegals are showing up with $3,000 of available food credit on a monthly allowance.”

WHAT WE FOUND: Illegal immigrants do not qualify for food stamps. In low-income families with both legal and illegal relatives, any food stamp allotment covers only the eligible, legal family members.

In Utah, a discrepancy in the rules that favors families with illegal immigrants is being eliminated. Curt Stewart, spokesman for the Utah Department of Workforce Services, says a prorating has been used to calculate household income for families with illegal immigrants. When Utah calculates food stamp benefits in families where parents are ineligible but children are eligible, a prorating has been used to calculate income and assets of undocumented relatives. So, in some cases, two similar households applying for food stamp benefits — one with four citizen members and the other with two legal and two nonlegal — could have different eligibility outcomes. Workforce Services is eliminating that difference with a rule change.

If a family has two parents who are illegal immigrants and children who are citizens, the monthly food stamp allotment would be for a two-person household.

The food stamp allowance is also grossly exaggerated. Stewart said the average grant is $310 in monthly food stamps. The average family size in Utah is 2.54 persons.

WHAT YOU HEAR: Illegal immigrants are invading Utah in big numbers. Most are Mexicans. In fact, most Mexicans here are “illegals.”

WHAT WE FOUND: About 4 percent of Utah’s population and 5.8 percent of its workforce are illegal immigrants, according to numerous studies by the Pew Hispanic Center, based on Census and survey data.

Pew says the numbers of illegal immigrants grew rapidly in recent decades but stabilized since 2006. For example, Pew studies put the number of the undocumented in Utah in 1990 at about 15,000, which grew to roughly 110,000 in 2008.

Court records of people facing deportation proceedings in Utah show that just over half of such illegal aliens are Mexican — but people in Utah facing deportation came from 72 countries, from Tonga to Russia, New Zealand, Mongolia and Vietnam.

This March, exactly 1,100 immigration cases were pending in Utah courts. Of those, 610 (55 percent) involved people from Mexico, according to the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University.

About 84 percent in Utah facing deportation are from Latin American countries (including Mexico). Guatemala and El Salvador each make up about 8 percent, the most after Mexico.

Combining that data with information from the Census Bureau seems to suggest that 70 percent of Hispanics in Utah are here legally.

The way that is figured is a bit complicated. But, first, if Pew’s estimate of 110,000 illegal immigrants in Utah is correct, and 84 percent of them come from Latino countries (as court data suggest), about 92,400 of the illegal aliens in Utah would be Hispanic.

Meanwhile, the Census Bureau estimates that about 306,887 Hispanics live in Utah — which would mean about 30 percent are illegal immigrants and 70 percent are here legally.


also this article has additional information

Permisos de trabajo en Utah

Visita nuestro sitio

“Probablamente NO habra Permisos Temporales de “Trabajadores Huespedes” Creadas o Emitidas hasta el 2013. No le Pague a nadie que le ofrezca ayudarle a

obtener un permiso.” Hay una pequeña posibilidad que el Estado puede consequir este permiso pero solo es una posibilidad, no seas engañados.


“A partir del 10 de mayo de 2011 los oficiales de policia pueden pedir

identificacion e investigar su estatus migratorio solo si usted lo

arrestan por crimenes menores o mayores.”


“A partir de Julio 1 del 2011, para Obtener y renovar una tarjeta de

privilegio para conducir se requerira tomarse sus huellas digitales en

adicion a todos los requisitos que ya se necesitan.


Si decide presentar la licensia de su pais, es importantisimo que

primero obtenga una carta de autenticidad de su consulado ya que

despues de Mayo 10 podra ser acusado de falcificacoin de documentos

(Class B misdemeanor) si el DMV o cualquier agencia gubernamental

decide que su licensia es fraudulenta.”

Questioning is a good thing when done correctly

We should question our own religion, don’t believe it just because your parents do. Don’t live it just because they say it is true. Don’t deny it just because it is hard to live, for things that are hard bring great wisdom, experience and treasures.  God does not hate and he is full of love. He for the most part does not punish but we punish ourselves.

Making fun of others is a sign that you may need help.

Those that put others down, make fun of them in any way or speak poorly of their race, religion, weight, culture or the way they look have their own problems that are normally much more serious. When someone makes fun of you or others you should ask yourself what you can do to help that person rather than just having disdain for their attitudes. Most of the time they have deep insecurities about themselves.



Word can really hurt your soul if you let them.

Kids don’t have the corner on making fun of others.

Who is my neighbor?

Most of us know the story of the good Samaritan, I have taught it in church several times. Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was and he answered “Love thy Lord thy God with all thy heart, might, mind and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself” He then stated that all the commandments basically fall under these two great ones. This is the advice from Jesus about how to return to God our father. Then the Jewish man that was speaking to him asked “Who is my neighbor?” Christ then answers with a story. First you need to understand that the Jews had a very strong dislike if not a hate for the Samaritans, they would even walk miles around an area just to avoid getting near any Samaritans. That is why the Samaritan woman at the well was surprised when Christ spoke to her.


Ok, so with the understanding that the Jews did not like or approve of the Samaritans. (They also intermarried and were looked down on for that too) The Samaritans as a group were considered to have left the important doctrines of the Church and strayed. The Jews thought that they were following the doctrines and doing what was right.  The bulk of the Jewish people judged these people and often they may have had good reasons for it. Care needs to be taken whenever we group an entire section of people and refer to them all as certain types of people. There are good and bad people in any group, race, religion, country or political party. The Jews were placing themselves above other groups of people at the time and we have to ask ourselves if we do the same thing today.


Jesus proceeded to tell the Story of a man that was robbed and beaten. Jesus then tells of a Priest and a Levite (Jewish Temple worker and Priesthood holder at the time) both of these men ignored the man that was hurt yet the Samaritan came, cared for and even paid a motel to care for the man’s needs and offered to come back and pay any additional charges for the future. Christ then asked who was the true neighbor to this man. The answer seems easy on the surface. Given the fact that a Jew was asking Christ this question we can understand that Christ was getting to the root of the mans personal issues of what was holding this man back and this same advice applies to most of us even today.


Another time a rich  man asked Christ what he must do to enter the kingdom of God and Christ spoke to him of the commandments and this man told Christ he had lived all of these commandments since his childhood. Christ then told the man to go and sell all that he had and give it to the poor. The man could not bring himself to do this since he was very rich. Christ was not telling all of us to run out and do the same thing. Jesus knew this mans problem and was addressing it specifically. The scripture that says it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. Long ago I learned that the gates of Jerusalem were closed at night and a small gate to the side was still left open but the camels had to kneel down and scoot through. If this information is correct then it teaches us that those that are rich can still enter heaven but with a bit more effort. I believe it all depends on your attitude about money. The man from the story held it above all to be the most important thing in his life and that was what held him back.


At Church we talk of Christ, we read of Christ, we preach of Christ and say that he is the only way wherein we can return back to our heavenly father and our heavenly home. This is all well and good but personally I struggle with some of my neighbors and wonder if I am like the Jewish man that looked down on the Samaritans. Reflecting on this I can see how I am like them. When your neighbors  kids throw rocks at your dog and trash into your yard, park in your driveway, it is easy to complain and look down on them. These people really are my neighbors and for me this is one of the things I need to repent of and change and it is a bit hard to write about it but even harder to begin to think of a plan on how I can act like a true Christian towards these people. Waving or nodding is not enough.


Do I want to be friends with these people? No, not really. Do I want to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with these people? No not really. What does that say about me?  They break the law of the day of rest  by going out riding their 4 wheelers on Sunday. We go to Church on Sunday. Does this make us better than they are? Am I a bit jealous of their recreation with their kids? Possibly.  What have we really learned at church? It is easy to love my nice friends, it is easy to love most of my family. For me, the advice of going out and selling all that I own and giving it to the poor is instead “Humble yourself and love your neighbor” will I be able to do that? This may be the first step. What did Christ say? Love your enemy and pray for them that despitefully use you?  For those Christians like me that consider yourselves already saved because you have accepted Christ we still need to reflect on whether we are really acting like Christians on a daily basis or just on Sunday so people can see us like those that used to pray on the street corners to be seen.


Have I killed anyone? No and I hope never to have to in my lifetime.  Have I stolen? I have a memory of stealing some batteries from my cousins house when I was like 7 years old and I did not even have anything that needed D batteries. I have goofed off at work when I could have been working so I suppose that I have stolen time from my company so whenever I think of that I try to repent of those things and become better and do what I know is right.  I asked myself all the questions about the commandments and yes I have had times in my life when I did things that I was not proud of but nothing gravely serious. The better question I feel is what is keeping me from moving closer to my God and I suppose it is my attitude toward some people and the way I treat them.


Human nature tells us to get them back if they do something to us. God tells us not to. People act in their own self interest. Many people do mean things because of their own insecurities.  A boy beats up on another boy at school because of his own issues he has deep within. Life is great, life is worth living and I have felt great joy being alive. I am glad we have the scriptures to learn from and I pray I can overcome the obstacles that hold me back.

Even the one living next door?

Poem by Larry and Michelle and added to by Daris

My Great Uncle (or another title might be “Las Fincas”)



Wind and rain and mud and constant toil

Arriving before the sun has awoken from his sleep

The line of men worn and tattered appearing oh so loyal


Forming in teams of three they begin their trek climbing steep

One with a knife firmly tied to a pole of wood

Cuts the strong thick stem allowing the heavy load to leap


The bundle of long yellow fruit fell to where he stood

The dirty pad on his shoulder absorbed the forceful fall

Ramiro cringed with pain and soreness lifting as fast as he could


He fell into a watering trench slipping down to crawl

Retrieving the damaged fruit he made it to his feet

Hanging the heavy load on the moving mechanical awl


Hardly able to walk Ramiro feels like he’s been beat

Etelvina welcomes him home and finally he feels complete


Michelle Mejicanos & Larry Love


Larry vino a Guatemala y visito a Ramiro un día, y Eber se lo llevo para la cuadrilla a ver como Ramiro se ganaba el sustento del día y al llegar a la cuadrilla, todos le dieron la bienvenida y él se quedo sorprendido del trabajo de cómo se hacía y ahí mismo nos tomo una fotografía, que quedo de mandarla un día, pero ese día no llego. Y Larry sorprendido la almohadilla sucia al hombro se hecho, y cuando Ramiro le hecho el paquete de fruta amarilla Larry cayó de rodillas. Y como no se podía parar le ayudaron los de la cuadrilla. Y era un hermoso día ya que el sol resplandecía. Y cuando llego donde su mami telvi le dijo que cansado venia, y su mami telvi le dio un pedazo de piña fría y el contesto con esto si me refresque el día porque cansado me sentía. Y le gustaron las bananeras y dijo que volvería algún día. Y hasta hoy que anochece y amanece, el sol brilla y Larry no aparece todavía. Larry quedo sorprendido de ver como Ramiro se gana el sustento del día. Y tiene treinta años de trabajo en las bananeras y no le duelen ni las rodillas. Saludos. Daris López y Ramiro López.


Larry came to Guatemala and visited Ramiro one day, and Eber took him to the crew to see Ramiro breadwinner of the day and upon arrival the crew, all welcomed him and he was surprised how work was made and right there we took a picture, send the remainder of a day but that day came. And Larry surprised dirty shoulder pad is made, and when Ramiro made Larry package yellow fruit fell to his knees. And since it was not helped stop the gang. And it was a beautiful day and the sun shone. And when I get where your mom told him telvi came weary, and his mom gave him a piece telvi pineapple cold and if I answer with this cool day because I was tired. And I liked the banana and said he would someday. And even now that dusk and dawn, the sun shines and Larry does not appear yet. Larry was shocked to see how Ramiro breadwinner of the day. And he has thirty years of work in the plantations and do not hurt or knees. Greetings. Ramiro Lopez and Lopez Daris. (Translated by Daris)


This is a poem written by Ramiro and his Daughter and when it is translated it does not come across as well as it does in Spanish but I want to thank them for welcoming me when I did visit the Banana Plantations and showing me what real work is. This is an answer to the poem Michelle and I wrote about Ramiro. The Great Uncle which may be better titled “Las Fincas” Michelle’s teacher at school wants to put it on the school web site. I know there is an error “o” should be oh and if you find more errors that’s ok let me know.


Daris pointed out that Ramiro is strong and would not fall by the weight of the banana and she is right we were just taking poetic license in order to make a point of how hard the work really is.


Daris dijo que Ramiro es muy fuerte y no va a caller bajo de las bananas pero Michelle y yo solo usamos esto como un ejemplo para mostar que el trabajo es muy dificil.

17 points of Christ’s church that most dismiss

The true church has roots that are in Christ

The true church has roots that are in Christ

1. Christ organized the Church  Ephesians 4:11-14

2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ Ephesians 5:23 and Acts 4:12

3. The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets Ephesians 2:19-20

4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ’s original church Ephesians 4:11-14

5. The true church must claim divine authority by the laying on of hands Hebrews 5:4-10

6. The true church must have no paid ministry for those preaching the gospel Isaiah 45:13 and Peter 5:2

7. The true church must baptize by immersion.  Matthew 3: 13-16

8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands Acts 8: 14-17 Acts 19:1-6 and Heb 6:1-2

9. The true church must practice divine healing. Mark 3:14-15, James 5:14-15, Mark 6:13

10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals. John 17:11 John 20:17

11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone. Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 1:9-11

12. The officers must be called by God.  Hebrews 5:4 Exodus 28:1 and Exodus 40:13-16

13. The true church must claim revelation from God with current Prophets. Amos 3:7

14. The true church must be a missionary church by sharing the gospel  Matthew 28:19-20

15. The true church must be a restored church. Acts 3:19-20 Isaiah 2:2-3 and Daniel 2:26-45

16. The true church must practice baptisms for the Dead 1 Corinthians 15:16-29 Malachi 4:5-6 Obadiah 1:21 and 1 Peter 4:6 and 3:18-20 — Mathew 16:18-19    18:18

17. By their fruits ye shall know them and the church will promote family unity.  Matthew 5:48 John 17:23 Genesis 17:1 Genesis 12:3 and Genesis 28:14

In Joel 2:28-32 we read that in the last days “I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams , your young men shall see visions”  So the key is to know when an angel or a vision is real and from God and when it is not from God. There will arise false Christs and you will be able to tell from their fruits if they are a false Christ or not. If they preach a different gospel then that is a key that it is not from God.

Some people believe you cannot add to the Bible ever actually this is not the case because John wrote the Book of Revelations before he wrote some of the other books and they just put it last because it spoke of the future. When John wrote that ye should not add or take away from the words he was referring to adding or taking away from his words of the Book that HE wrote. He was not referring to the entire Bible because it had not even been put together yet. If you read in Deuteronomy 4:2  and 13:32 and in Proverbs 30:5-6 will you find the same words telling you not to add or take away. Note that Moses was saying that you should not add or take away from his words, it did not not mean there could not be more revelation because if it did then you have to throw away all of the books in the Bible after Deuteronomy which is ridiculous. So John also wrote not to add or take away from his writings. Once again we cannot limit God when he decides to talk to may by saying you cannot have more sacred words than the Bible. That is against Bible teachings.