Caucas Meeting on the 15th of March

In our precinct two years ago there were 3 of us, the chair,  Ken and I. We nominated each other and we became delegates.  Last night there were 12 men and 5 women that showed up, almost 6 times the people and we voted in one State Delegate and two County delegates and I happened to be one of the Country delegates. The overall consensus of the group seemed to be that Senator Hatch had been in office too long and we needed to get someone new in although the group does understand that he is a senior member and has more influence on committees and such giving Utah the upper hand and we agreed that if we replace him we need to do so with a viable candidate.

I expressed that whoever we send needs to be able to work with others well meaning the democrats. Michael Fairbanks mentioned that he feels that the  time for compromise is over and that whoever we send needs to to stand up for their beliefs and not compromise. Personally I understand where he is coming from although gridlock is not something that would help the country move forward either.

Michael looks at compromise as something to be avoided at all costs now whereas I look at compromise as a important part of relationships, in a marriage you both need to come to agreements through compromise and in business the same thing applies unless of course your the King then you can have it your way all the time without compromise. Michael looks at it as giving in and compromising your core values. I look at it as two extremes from left to right and coming together in the middle with reasonable solutions.

Hatch seemed to have quite a bit of support last night as opposed to what happened to Senator Bennett.  Senator Hatch has working well with others and is fairly moderate in many aspects and has not missed near as many votes as Senator Bennett did so it seems for now that he still has a good chance of keeping his seat.

As far as the feelings for the Governor we agreed that he has not been doing a bad job but quite a good job although people seem to feel he could be more assertive. The turnout at the meeting was greatly affected by the LDS Church putting out a letter from the First Presidency encouraging people to go to these meetings and get involved. They also asked that no meetings be held during those nights that were planned for caucus meetings. Some people told me that was the only reason they were there.

In the past the general feeling of apathy was obvious and now people seem to be getting involved more.


Loving life as it is

I enjoy my days at work, I like being with my family at night and I get to interact with neighbors and friends at church from time to time.  I hear and see others complain and after awhile it gets old although I try to put myself in their position because often they are alone, afraid and insecure so their complaints are a cry for help and companionship.

I do love life and sometimes we settle for things as they are rather than trying to make things better. I have learned that I cannot change others and “what is, is” I strive to become a better person myself and encourage my family members to better themselves as well and when it comes down to it I find much more in life to be happy about than to be upset or complain about.

I made an incredible baby clam sauce last night and Michelle and I were the only ones brave enough to try it so I brought it to work today and Kathy and I had a great lunch with the rest of the baby clams. The sauce had a bit of a kick to it. It does kinda look like lots of little eyes looking up at you.

This week are the caucus meetings and I really want to stay involved although the political process seems less and less effective and fair as of late. So much money is involved and the want for power rather than the desire to help and serve the country has me concerned.

My Compadre, Sister in law and 2 nieces moved away 2 weeks ago and we all miss them terribly. Not seeing Dani is hard on us and it lets you see how important family really is.Deyci said that all the 15-16 year old boys in Roosevelt have and drive trucks so Michelle should go there to meet some of them. lol.

Michelle’s friend came to dinner last night and tried my fax crab sauce but avoided the baby clams. He spoke of wanting to be a vet which would be a great job. Some of the youth really do have goals and aspirations. Nathanial suffered the hour lecture about the future, bills, scholarships and job advice fairly well although Michelle did wince a bit.

We have been moving the furniture around in the home and re-wiring the cable outlets and some of the electrical and phone outlets so we have been in the middle of disorganization which will lead to organization.

My mom hit her leg on the stove last week and it pulled a piece of skin the size of two fifty cent pieces off of her leg and I went and put her back together and as we get older we can appreciate our youth in retrospect more than we did while it was happening.



Bathroom experiences

My mom told me how they lived in a tent on Redwood road her in Salt Lake  and had an outhouse where they used the sears catalog or corn cobs for you know what. During Christmas they got a case of oranges and apples wrapped in tissue paper so they got,,, yes you guessed it another treat instead of dried corn cobs. (yeakkkkk)


One of my earliest memories about toilets is having to go the bathroom in the middle of the night and finding my dad fast asleep on the toilet and I would have to wake him up so I could go since we only had one bathroom. I also remember on April fools day one time when I was about 12 I believe my mom woke me up at like 3AM and told me I was late for school and I had better take a bath quickly so I started the water running and then she started laughing and told me it was a joke. (hahahaha) Yes we only had a tub not a shower. I then remember the Deseret gym showers and bathrooms and of course the dreaded school restrooms. (most of the time I would wait until I got home because I did not feel they were very clean) Once in junior high I accidentally went into the girls restroom and started using the facilities and I wondered about the pink tile and why there were not any urinals  and at about that same moment when I began wondering more girls came in and also started using the facilities. I stopped midstream and got out of there hoping that no one would see me.


When I was 15 I was in a band that toured Europe and when we stopped in Italy I had to use the bathroom so I went downstairs at the place we stopped at and went into the bathroom and closed the door. I was perplexed because I turned around in a full circle only to find yep “a hole” in the floor with a tap next too it and no paper. Needless to say I only used the hole for urinating and not anything else. I decided I could wait until we arrived at a more civilized place.


When we went to other places in Europe they actually had toilets and I learned you had to pay to use them. There would be a lady watching and sometimes she would even make her way into the restroom just to watch and make sure you did not make a mess. She also would charge extra for more paper. Many of the hotels did not have bathrooms or water closets in your rooms but you needed to go down the hall to use them or to shower. We were lucky in I believe France to have a toilet and shower in our room and the girls from the band that were staying in other rooms would come to use our bathroom because they did not have one.


In one of the hotels I saw what I thought were two toilets, low and behold,  someone was nice enough to explain that the second fixture was not a toilet at all but a bidet (baday)fixture or type of sink intended for washing the genitalia, inner buttocks, and anus. Bidets are primarily used to wash and clean the genitalia, perineum, inner Bidets once served as a practical way for couples to prepare themselves before and the longer one (bidet nozzle) is designed for women to wash their vulvae. We were in Europe for a month and we stayed for a few days in the Belgium Army barracks and all the guys and the girls in the band shared the same bathrooms and showers so that was also a shock but the toilets had doors and were much better than a hole in the ground.


During scout camp outs I also experienced the outdoors in other ways using shovels and leaves and you really needed to be careful about the leaves you used.


When I joined the Army National Guard Military Police at the age of 17  I went to basic training in Alabama and we had more experiences with army life and they would inspect the toilets in the morning so we had 54 guys in the bay and only one toilet we could use because the cleaning crew would not let anyone into the clean toilets to save time on not having to clean them again. Later in the Army experiences in barracks such as Idaho, California and Utah we ended up having toilets all out in the open in the barracks with no doors or partitions at all so you would be sitting next one several other guys doing their business or reading the paper. (Ohhh gross) Since I did not drink  I was the one that ended up cleaning up the vomit or putting a guy in the shower to clean up because if the Sargent would find a mess the entire platoon would get in hot water. I used to sing in the shower in the Army and some of the guys liked it and others would just tell me to shut up. I then stated singing in the laundry room when no one was there.


I went to Guatemala and ended up seeing toilets of various different types and many times women would just crouch down in the street and do their business and then stand up and be on their way. (The indigenous people)  The first time I saw that I did not really know what I was seeing. They kept their long skirts around them and hopefully that has changed since I was there in 1983.  I paid $15 dollars rent per month at the place I was staying and we shared a bathroom with lots of other people. It did have a toilet and a pipe that came out of the wall where we could shower with very cold water. I would soap myself up in the morning and then get up the courage and jump in to rinse off. I went back in 2008 and 2010 and the water situation was still the same (Cold) and my Mother in law would tell me when to shower because if the power went out you only had a certain amount of time before the water ran out so they would fill the rock sinks and any barrels that they had ready. I also remember one place we stayed at that had a toilet outhouse that emptied out over the side of mountain. (Super gross but that is the way is was done and in some cases is still done) I returned to the same place in 2008 and there were many more homes on the side of the mountain and still extreme poverty. This neighborhood is so dangerous that policemen don’t even patrol there and taxis don’t like to go into their area either. (Ciudad Real)  When you get out of the car you don’t waste time but get right into the house. Some of these homes require that you hike down several flights of cement and or dirt steps that have been cut into the mountain and much of the power that the homes are wired to is stolen and wired in such a way as to be very dangerous.


I got married to a Filipino(a) at the age of 22 and she explained that when she came to the states her first day she stood over the toilet and would flush it just to watch the water go down and she did that several times and was fascinated. Her experience with toilets in the Philippines was very similar to mine in Guatemala but for the most part they did not use toilet paper but water, soap and their hand. I guess that is why they use their other hand to eat with because they eat with their fingers much of the time by scooping up rice with there fingers and then grabbing a piece of chicken, fish or meat and then turning their hand over and pushing their food into their mouth using the thumb. This is still their custom depending on what you eat. I learned to love the culture, food and the people while married to my first wife. I was with her for almost 20 years and we were interacting with her family almost every week or several times a week since their families are much more close than most American families.


Over the years I have experienced many different types of toilets and bathrooms and being in different countries we see how other people live and I have been in very expensive hotels and very cheap hotels (one that was like $20 per night in China town where the room did not have a bathroom but the bathroom was shared with others on the same floor) So these are a few of my bathroom experiences.


This is what the hole in Italy looked like w/o the bucket of trash or paper

Just like the Army

Just like mom’s outhouse

Toilets in Guatemala but many people have real ones now.

Prepare to meet with your lawyer

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Maybe you are married or plan to marry a person with immigration issues. You may have the desire to give some advice to a friend or neighbor who is in need of some immigration help. Let me make it clear that I am not a lawyer and I don’t pretend to have the knowledge a good immigration lawyer has. That is why they make the big money because they have the experience and the ability and the knowledge to help you through the complicated mess of immigration paperwork. This blog is not meant to be legal advice, more than anything it should be a wake up call so you can get the needed paperwork, documents and money together so you can hire an experienced immigration lawyer. When you have all the documents together and you go into see your lawyer they will have a much easier time if you have done much of the footwork for them. Understand that filing your own forms is possible but not recommended.  Know that complicated forms such as the waivers need to be filled out in a certain way and your lawyer can help you with this process so the forms get filed in the right way.


If you don’t have the money to file the forms then start saving and make a plan of which forms to file first and get them ready to file. If you sit down with an immigration lawyer they can help you with your plan and tell you according to your situation which forms are needed and when. Ask them if the list of forms is right or not. Understand that in Nov 2010 the fees went up so make sure you print and use current forms and instructions


Depending on the countries involved and your specific legal situation the forms and the procedures can change so it is important that you meet with an immigration attorney to verify the steps.  If the alien entered the country without inspection and stayed over 365 days a 10 year bar can be issued when such person leaves the US.  Normally the US does not prosecute these cases as criminal but they treat them as civil unless you have been deported and come back in which case that could be a felony.  It is a federal issue so don’t misunderstand me,  it is serious.  If the undocumented alien marries a US Citizen they can have the US Citizen Petition for them by filing an I-130 form $355 + and then there will be a marriage interview at ICE where they will want to see wedding certificates, pictures and proof of a valid relationship. If this interview is approved then they will receive a notice to get biometrics taken and then they will send the I-130 application to the National Visa Center NVC.


If the person entered without inspection there is a strong chance they will need to go back to their own country and then re-enter, this may take a year or longer to process the forms. There are circumstances where the person can adjust status within the country but these are few and far between. If the person entered and let their visa expire then there is more of a chance they can adjust their status within the USA although there are times when these people need to go back to their countries as well.


It is best to use an immigration attorney with experience and normally they charge about $250 per hour. If you cannot afford a lawyer there are some free law clinics you can attend where a lawyer can look over the forms you have filled out yourself but there are certain aspects of immigration law that are so complicated it really is best to hire someone with experience so my advice, start saving up for forms and lawyers. Put all your paperwork together in one box and organize it. Keep another copy of everything at a secondary location.


A US Citizen can also petition a father, mother, brother or a sister when they are 21 years of age using the same I-130 form.  A US Citizen can petition for a fiancee visa as well and this is a different form but it costs a bit more.


Some of the forms are as follows:


I-130 Petition $355, I-212 $545 (If deported), I-601c $545 (If they left on their own), I -765 Application for permission to work, I-693 (Medical Form)  G-28 (File paperwork as to who will be representing you), I-246 (Stay of deportation $155) I-918 U-Visa, I-589 Asylum Petition (Denied much of the time if you do not meet the criteria outline exactly as stated) Motions to re-open or to appeal can also be filed. make sure you file the most current forms off the website. Don’t use old copied forms.


Then instructions will come in the mail to fill out the DS230 and an affidavit of support which is another $470. The order of forms you may have to fill out may be different than these depending on your situation and your attorney will go over this with you.  Do not send forms in out of order. If you don’t get instructions from the National Visa Center don’t send in the DS230 because it will not do any good.

If the alien has worked over 40 quarters themselves it is possible for them to fill out the I-864w.  If not then the person will need someone to be the sponsor with the I-864 financial affidavit.


The Spouse may or may not qualify depending on their work experience/years and income. Verify with ICE. Check    normally the alien will need to leave the USA and go back to his or her country for the interview at the consulate. This is 9+ months although the time varies per country.  The alien will need to have all their vaccinations up to date and there is a list of them and they will need to have a special physical done by an approved doctor and the I-693 form will need to be filled out and submitted with the vaccination record.  They will most likely want to file an I-765 application for permission to work as well when you file for the waivers. If the alien does not speak the language start having them take classes now and that goes both ways.  If they need to go back to another country they need to speak that language and learn English as well.


If the alien does not have a current passport then have them go to their embassy and get one as soon as possible.  If you’re not in a major city many times your embassy will come to your city every 6 months to process these things. This is normally around $100.   This whole process takes time so file the I-130 while the alien is still in the US if possible.  If the alien was here and working without permission you will want to obtain all the documents  you can such as any taxes paid, letters from neighbors testifying for their character, school certificates, volunteer certificates or letters of recommendation. This will show that they were productive while here in the US and not causing trouble.  You will need to file either the I-212 if the alien was deported or the I-601c if they left on their own.  Both of these forms have a fee of $545 and in both the alien will need to admit to what they did wrong and ask for forgiveness this includes working without permission, coming in without inspection and working with a false social security card if applicable.


If a ten year bar is issued one or both of these forms could waiver the 10 year bar. They may or may not waiver them depending on your situation. If you have a criminal record this will affect their decision so make sure all your fines are paid, if you can get an expungment this will help. If the charges are felony charges don’t get your hopes up of getting the waiver granted.  If you have been through any programs such as drug rehabilitation include those certificates.  Do not drive without a license or privilege card. Do not drive without insurance.  You do not have to be legal to get insurance.  If the alien was abused while here from domestic abuse there is the  I-918 form that can be filled out. This is a U Visa that could really help the situation. You will need copies of police reports, photographs of the abuse and hospital verification of injuries etc….The police department will need to fill out a portion of this form.  Do not fill any forms out with false information since it can really hurt your case.


Understand when you file the  I-130 petition for an immediate family member this could trigger a deportation of the person that is here undocumented. This is a risk you will need to be willing to take to straighten out your situation so be prepared for it.   You can file an I-246 which is a stay of deportation $155 but in many cases it will be denied, this form can be filed again if needed. You can also file for deferred action which is something ICE can approve or deny, they have been given authority for this which simply means they know your hear without permission and they will wait before they deport you.  Depending on your situation they may allow you to stay in the country for a time period while you file certain paperwork such as appeals etc… Many times just the cost of the forms can run up to about 5,000 or more and the lawyer costs can go from $2,500 to $10,000 depending on your situation. Plan on using FEDX to send your forms and keep good records of everything.


If your spouse is being deported or has been you may want to consider going to their country to live there. Understand that in many countries the standard of living is much lower and wages by comparison can be 15 or 20 times lower then here in the US. Flights to Guatemala and some areas of Mexico are around $600 to $900 dollars so plan on saving enough money so you could fly back in the event of an emergency. Many of the small towns have dirt roads, no hot water, very limited health care depending on the location and the education for your children will vary with the location. In some areas it will rate right up there with US Schools and in some areas they don’t even have computers, internet or books for the children. Go into your situation with your eyes wide open, research the area and know what to look out for as far as sickness, preventative measures, gang or violence issues, cost of living etc….


Keep copies of everything and it is a good idea to keep copies at a secondary location in case you have a house fire so you can rebuild all the applications if needed.  Some lawyers may suggest that you wait for immigration reform but I would not hold my breath on that one at least for this year and it may not happen next year either. The wait for a Green card in Mexico according to USCIS is up to 8 years although marrying a US Citizen puts you at the front of the line. Understand that only 25,000 visas are issued per year so once they are gone you get put into the line for the next year.  I hope this information help you. Don’t trust any one person for this type of advice, once you talk to a lawyer it is a good plan to get a second opinion as well.  Make a list of things that you need to get done and check them off keeping copies of everything along the way and a journal entry book every time you get something from USCIS or ICE and every time you send them something along with the tracking numbers. Keep copies of all the forms and documents and keep an extra set at a secondary location in case something happens to the copies you have at home.


When filling out forms set a certain amount of time each day such as one or two hours that you will set aside. If you try to do all of them at once it is overwhelming.


If your spouse is being deported or if they have been deported start by filling out the I-130 $355 and the I-212 $545. Print the instructions off the web site by going to forms. Fill out the forms and print them off and take them into your lawyer. They may have to re-do the forms but it will save them time to have all the information filled in and you will submit all the documents that they need such as marriage, birth, passports, taxes W-2 etc… according to the instructions. These first steps will allow your lawyer to begin the process. Don’t file the forms without consulting with your lawyer as to the order the forms should be filed. If your spouse left of their own accord and they were not deported then fill out the I-130 and then the I-601c form which is also a waiver and also costs $545  plan on paying about $16-25 dollars to mail the applications and many times they have to be sent to two locations. Also plan on costs to copy the documents. Never include the originals. Keep all your receipts and keep all your fed-ex receipts and tracking numbers as well. When you send something FedX or registered mail be sure to include what form it was so you can keep track in your immigration notebook of when you sent the forms in, to whom, how much the fees were etc….Keeping good records can really help your situation when there is a question about your forms from USCIS or ICE.


Most common forms: (Check for current forms and fees )

I-130 petition $355 + petition your husband, wife, mother, father, son or daughter

I-765 permission to work

I-693 Medical – ask the lawyer when to file this or if

I-601 waiver or the I-212 waiver – Don’t mess this one up. (Good lawyers know how to fill this out)

I-589 Political Asylum – Not approved very often

I-918 – U Visa – requires forms to be filled out by the Police Department – (Abuse etc..)

I-485 change of status $1080+ and possibly the I-485a for working without permission another $1000+

I-864 Affidavit of support showing you will not be a hardship on the country

DS230 normally is filed with the I-864 or the I-864W $470+

I-246 $155 + Stay of deportation


Documents to get together NOW and have them ready with a copy at your house, one for your lawyer etc….


All birth certificates – May have to order them from your country

Current passports – wise to get them for the kids as well – Consulates can help you with this

Marriage Certificates

Documents showing any schooling or certificates of training

Documents showing you have lived in the country for so many years…. School, rent receipts, bank etc…

Proof you have been paying taxes and social security payments

Many of the forms require current passport photos

BCI background check from your State – Certified

If you have any speeding tickets or other outstanding issues such as crimes pay all the fines and keep copies

Letters from neighbors, friends, people at church

Police reports if you have been abused

Have pictures in an album for your marriage interview showing it to be a valid marriage

Have original paperwork with you for the interview and have copies for them

Send all your applications with shipping method like FedeX so you can track them and keep all receipts and tracking #

List the form number on your tracking shipping labels and keep all of these for reference.


Make a plan of which forms to file first, list how much they cost according to the new fees, make an appointment with a good immigration lawyer and many will do the consultation for about $100 and go over this plan with them asking them questions. (You may want to record the meeting so you can refer to it later) Ask them if your plan is realistic and ask them what they would change about it according to your situation.


Example if you marry an undocumented person that came without inspection:


1. File the I-130 petition $355 with all the supporting documents then go to interview.

2. Get all vaccinations up to date while they are still in the US.

3. Get all the information from them for all the forms you will need to file and get them ready.

4. Get all the documents together so you will have them for any of the forms.

5. After they leave file the I-601 or the I-212 waiver petition right away. (needs to be complete and done right) $545+

6. Before they come back they may need to have a physical done – check with the lawyer

7. The I-130 will be sent to the NVC National Visa Center and they will then send you a letter letting you know that you need to fill out the DS230 and the I-864. Don’t wait until you get this letter to start the forms. Have them ready to send.

8. You can send in the I-765 employment permission request as well so ask your lawyer when it will be best to send this in.

9. The I-485 form will not have to be filled out until later so have your lawyer help you with a list so you know all of the costs upfront so nothing will be a surprise to you and so you can start saving for all of these forms to be done when the time comes.

10. When you get contacted from the NVC and you send in the forms then they will contact the person to have their interview in their country and what the next steps are. You can be separated from your Husband or wife for 1-3 years or possibly more so make sure you understand when you file the first form that it will throw up a red flag and possibly start a deportation for your spouse so be ready for this and don’t let it be a surprise.

11. Make sure you stay out of trouble and don’t have any criminal charges and if you do then get them paid right away and get the treatment done and keep all the paperwork and don’t lie on any application, make sure you explain things and included the supporting paperwork.


I know I have repeated myself but when you are in the middle of this you cannot miss anything since it affects your life and family so much. Don’t put all of your trust with anyone. It is always a good idea to get additional opinions from other lawyers.






Illegal aliens pay billions of dollars in tax each year.


Illegal aliens using false social security numbers will not be charged with identity theft if they were only using the number in order to work.



Additional Details

Sources on Amnesty and the economy:…

New Report Finds Legalization of Immigrants Substantially Improves Economic Status…

The Economic Boost of Legalization…

Immigration Reform Will Enhance Economic Recovery

I also sell audio recordings of much of this information in English and Spanish for a low cost on my site or or

Governor’s Mansion – Utah Republican Hispanic Assembly meeting

Gary Herbert spoke to us this morning about several issues, one being immigration. Governor Herbert feels that whatever course of action we take should be done with 6 items in the forefront of our minds:


1. Respect for the law. Governor Herbert said that we need to avoid passing any laws that look anything like amnesty. When laws are passed allowing immigrants to change their status those programs should be structured so they have to earn what they get.


2. The Federal Government needs to secure our borders, pass reasonable laws and enforce them.


3. We have to have greater accountability from businesses


4. Respect for Humanity – Governor Herbert told us he believes we are all Children of one God so we are all brothers and sisters. He said we need to be slow to offend and strive to not be offended. Whatever laws are passed should keep this in mind.


5. The police should be given the tools and the training they need in order to enforce the law. The AZ SB1070 passed without a fiscal bill so they are being told to enforce a law but they are not being given the tools, training or the ability to do so.


6. Governor Herbert said we need to releave the burden on the tax payers. He told us it is not fair for undocumented  people to come into the country and when they do, they put a great tax burden upon the rest of the people.  He said he feels we should have a high fence and a wider gate making it easier to come legally. He also stated he was in favor of a guest worker program with the proper ID system to allow people to come and go legally as jobs are available. He told us that something has to be done because people are getting very upset about illegal immmigration.


He answered several questions and when someone asked him how he felt about certain Republicans leaning toward the extreem and how it seems very few Republicans are moderate, Governor Herbert told him that he also believes in the 13th commandment which says “Thou Shalt Not Speak Negitively About Thy Fellow Republicans.” He gave us the example that he and his wife don’t always see eye to eye and the fact that they have a different opinion on many topics does not lessen the love they have for each other. The person asked if there is still room in the Republican Party for Hispanics and people of other ethnic groups. The Governor said he believes in a very large tent and that the principles of the Republican party are the reason he is a Republican.


He feels he can speak to people that disagree with him and work towards reasonable solutions. He told us Washington seems very polarized and that is too bad. Governor Herbert also said he would accept a bill that was drafted by Senator Sandstrom and Luz Robles if they did it together. He feels that good legislation can be put together by working hand in hand on solutions.


He stated that within the Group of Govenors the Polarization does not come into play like it does in the House and Senate. After their National meetings as Governors they go back to their States and have to keep working. He wants to know if he as a Governor has to pass and keep a balanced budget why should the US Federal Government  be any different?


He said he has interviewed 90 lawyers and appointed 18 judges but out of those 90 only 2 were hispanics. He said he does not care about your race, skin color or gender he just wants to appoint the best people for those positions. Why don’t we have more hispanics that are preparing for these type of positions is a question he has for the hispanic community.


Governor Herbert stated his two most important priorities as Governor are:


1. The Economy – Hispanics in Utah have one of the fastest growing groups of small business owners and he commends this.


2. Education – The Governor is concerned at the high drop out rate of minorities from school and the fact that a much smaller percentage of minorites go to college. He said something has to be done to change this and he is working on solutions with a special task force to address these concerns.



Gary Herbert

Michelle Mejicanos future community leader

Memo and Cesar with Michelle all of which will be our future leaders.

How do I feel about undocumented people?

Personally I am not in favor of ilegal immigration nor do I  agree with breaking the law. Having said that I do need to let you know that I lived in Guatemala in 1983 and 1984 and I have been back twice since then and the living conditions in 1983 comparred to 2010 are almost the same. I learned to love the people, food and the culture. Conditions are very different from the US. Most of the small towns only have  dirt roads, no hot water, limited access to mediocre healthcare and the list goes on. It really is a beautiful place although it is very different. When I visited the school, there was not a fax machine,a computer or even a phone and there were very few text books. I could have counted the books in the library without taking very long. People find out what United States is like and they will do just about anything to give their children a better life. While I was in Guatemala in Aug of this year I still saw naked kids out playing  and found out many people can’t even afford to send their kids to school so they quit school and go into the fields to work.


I do understand why people come here to the US without getting in the legal line. For many of them there is not a legal line to get into. There are 9 legal ways to get a visa to enter this country and most people south of the border don’t qualify for those options.  My mother in law has applied 4 times now legally and been turned down for a vistors visa all 4 times. I was with her on the 3rd time and she cried and said I should go over wet. We talked her out of it but it is hard for her because she has grandchildren that she has never met here in the US. It is $300 each time for her to apply and each time they said no and they kept the money.


I did research on the cost of living in a small town in Guatemala (not having a car but a small motorcycle and taking the bus) Living in the City has a higher cost of living although the wages are a bit higher as well but so is the crime rate and Government and police corruption is off the charts. The murder solve rate is less than 2%.


The cost of living in “La Libertad” is about $600-650 per month which would allow you to pay your living expenses, food, transportation, utilities etc… The problem occurs when you find out the wages are $60 to $100 per month so having 3 people in your household working will only bring you up to maybe 1/2 of the cost of living which keeps most people living in extreem poverty. Some of the jobs on the banana farm make $15 per day instead of $3 to 5 per day. This adds up to $300 a month and in 2008 when I was there my father in law had 60 guys on his crew that he was supervisor over yet this year after the “Agatha” storm his crew was down to 12 and a large percentage of the banana farm was destroyed.


This is not a justification but a reality. When your cousin writes you and tells you that if you go to Utah or California you can make 20 to 30 times what you are currently making it is very appealing because you could send your wife 200-$300 a month and still save money left over. That is why they come and even share a small house with more than one family.


Yes many undocumented people bring crime, sickness and drugs with them and those things should be dealt with harshly and swiftly. We do need to control the border but it is not happening. They pull trucks with ladders up on both sides of the fence or wall and they dig tunnels. The Border Patrol has even found cement tunnels under the walls and fences.


Those that are here are people, they are our neighbors, our kids friends our friends, our family our brothers and sisters and they fall in love the same way we do. Telling them they need to go home and get in the legal line when the wait is over 30-40 years or more is not a solution especially when we are talking about ripping families apart.


I feel that we should treat those that are here with respect, understanding, compassion and we should come up with a reasonable method to document them, count them and allow them to apply and get into an eventual line for citizenship. They should not be put in line ahead of anyone who has applied legally but the current rules for a Husband and Wife with a 2 year old US Citizen son are that they need to leave the country and wait 19 years to apply (When the son is 21 he can petition the parents)  and another 13 to 20 for processing. Is 39 years away from your family a reasonable time period? Giving them an ID with a smart chip by taking their photo, prints, eyescan will give us a baseline. We can charge them a fine, back taxes and loan them the money at reasonable fair rates. This would generate Billions. They do send about 24 Billion out of the country each year but this does not hurt the dollar it helps it. Anyone that has studied Macroeconomics understands that. When they trade the dollar outside the US it helps the value of our dollars. They also earn about 250  Billion that stays within the country. Taking them out of our country would cause such a large gap that the consequenses would be devistating.


Ok, I get it, these people should have thought of that before they came accross illegally and that is true, but if we send them all back who will pay the rent on 4-6 million empty homes and apartments that they will leave behind. Who will pay the foster care costs on millions of US Citizen children they will leave behind. Many say the kids should be deported with the parents but many families have some kids that were brought when they were young and others that were born here. Do we deport the US Citizens as well back into starving conditions? Imagine Mexico alone having an influx of 7 million unemployed people. The country could not handle it and it would hurt the US as well.


Yes undocumented people do cost the country money in healthcare, crime etc… They also pay rent and house payments which ends up paying property taxes which funds education so this crap about us spending millions on their kids when they don’t contribute is just that (untrue) . They pay gas tax, sales tax and the estimate is that 75% of them use false social security cards and pay Federal, State and FICA and Medi taxes. The mismatched FICA fund received over 9 Billion dollars last year alone. With all the undocumneted people deported that will leave a massive hole in the Social Security fund. Deporting Millions of youth will also hurt the FICA fund in years to come because white Americans are not having children at a rate that will support the fund for future retirement benefits. Am I justifying illegal immigration? No, I am pointing out realities of the economic situations that we will be dealing with years from now.


The estimation is 4 million US Citizen children have undocumented parents, the Gov estimate is that there are 10.8 million undocumented people within the country but others feel the number is closer to 22 million. Without having real numbers it is difficult to estimate the impact of mass deporation. It would take over 20 years to deport 11 million people at our current high rate of deportation. This is assuming none of them come back over the border. People keep saying the Federal Governement is not doing anything about it but the deporation rates are at their highest they have ever been so they are doing quite a bit but not enough. In order to allow the Government to do what is needed they need more funding and that would mean higher taxes.


Understand that in order for the Government to deport people they need to identity them, gain a warrant or deportatin order and then serve it in a legal manner. The other method is raiding companies. When this was done in Southern Utah we ended up with over 100 kids in the foster care system that did not have parents to come home to. It caused a wide range of problems. Emotional problems and logistical problems. We sent buses down south to handle the influx of kids into the system and the system was hardpressed to deal with it. That was just over 100 kids, now times that by thousands….millions,  We can’t and should not do it.


Keep in mind that these children 4 – 7 million will vote someday. This group of children will most likely have a higher birth rate given the race factors and religious background of most of them. How we treat them now does matter greatly. They are US Citizens and they will petition their family eventually as well making that number grow many fold within very few generations. Changing the 14th amendment is very unlikely. People can try and I comend those that feel what they are doing is right although we will have to deal with the consequenses of how we treat others. Many sites are calling them objects or refering to them as anchor babies which also objectifies them. Many say they are parasites. This kind of attitude will make the situation worse. We need to treat them as people not objects.


Coming over the border illegally is a criminal class B misdemeanor and if you are caught the consequenses are deportation and a 10 year bar from coming in legally.


However if you are not caught or if your visa expires and you don’t leave it is “unlawful Presense” and that is NOT criminal it is a CIVIL infraction yet it is still punishable by deportation and in  many cases you will be separated from your family.


Many of them take their kids but many know the children will have a much better life in the US so they leave them with others such a family or even friends after making arrangments. In many cases the State takes custody of the children and sometimes the State makes the decision that sending the child back with the parents is not in the best interest of the children. There are many factors considering the dangers of countries such as Guatemala, El Salvador etc….

What did Rosa Parks not understand about illegal when she got on a bus and sat where it was illegal to sit? It was the law, and you should respect the law.


What did Susan B Anthony not understand about illegal when she voted in 1878 and was fined $100 dollars for voting when it was illegal for women to vote?


Am I saying the law is wrong?  I don’t think all of the law is wrong, there should be reasonable controls on our borders and we have to have limits and we have to have control on who comes into the country to protect the country from sickness, crime, drugs etc… We buy more drugs than any country on the earth so we have created a market for it. We pay undocumented people so they keep coming in. This is our fault. We want the cheap prices for construction, hotels, food, and goods so we continue creating more of a problem because we create the demand and the undocumented people fill that need. The 25 million people in the US that are not employeed are not going to jump in and take the jobs the undocumented people leave behind when they go. Many of those unemployeed people are professionals and there will always be a small percentage of people that just won’t hold down a steady job. Cleaning toilets, hotel rooms, picking fruit in the hot sun, construction jobs etc….


Many of the construction crews are over 50% undocumented. This does create problems for American workers many times. If a qualified trained tile setter makes $17 dollars an hour in TX and the undocumented tile setter will do the work for 7 dollars an hour the contractor can make more money and the customer pays less but this type of thing does hurt the American worker and so to say that these type of things don’t happen is not true either because they do. The US takes advantage of these people because we don’t have to pay them benefits, overtime or pay their health insurance. We are using them and they are using us but there are more problems that are created as they have children and set their roots within the country.


When NAFTA passed we sold corn to Mexico at lower prices than they could farm it. There are two types of corn, feed corn and food grade corn and now the US Sells Mexico feed corn at very low prices and the feed corn is now being used to feed people instead of animals. One in 3 tortillas is a product of animal feed corn rather than food grade corn. After the US did this it put more than 1 million Mexican farmers out of business and then illegal immigration trippled. Hm, is there a corelation? The issues are a bit more complicated than these simple examples but I would express my feelings in the hope that people would become educated and not believe all the negative comments that are being spread about UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE.  Many of these comments are not true. Some of them are and we need to deal with that.


We need a reasonable immigration reform that addresses these people as people not objects. We need to understand where they come from and know we can’t just send them back. My dad wanted to send all the blacks back to africa and he really did not know how crazy that sounded coming out of his mouth. Many others don’t stop to think about families. My wife is currently in deportation and we have spent thousands of dollars fighting the system and filing legal forms. When she came into this country she went to the immigration office and applied legally and the lawyer is telling us that was her mistake because if she would not have done that we would not be in this situation especially since she does not have a criminal record. She has worked for 16 years now with a a valid social security number issued by the US, she has paid taxes and worked 2 jobs so she could provide for her children and now the Government is telling us she needs to leave. This is not reasonable to separate 3 US Citizen kids and a US Citizen husband from their wife and mother. Yes I am biased but know that even my wife does not condone illegal immigration although she understands it better than most of us because she took almost a month to get from Guatemala into the US, being robbed and going hungry on many of the days. She went to a US citizen swearing in a while back just so she could picture herself getting her citizenship and swearing to be loyal to the US. She still loves the country after all that has happened and to me that helps my faith in my country. I took my oath in the Army in 1982 and since I have taken the same oath to protect the constitution on the committees and boards that I have served on for the State of Utah and I know the country on a whole is better than how we are acting. Give me your tired and your poor…..


I write these blogs and many have had much of the same information in them. Not many people read them because they are so long. In a sense it is a type of therapy for me to just flood the page with words and I get this frustration out of me. I have so many friends that are undocumented and they have families, goals, dreams, many of them have homes with real mortages that they are paying. Let us think about the affects years from now that our new laws will have on our children. Who is our neighbor?

This is where my family cooks and the rock sink is where they wash clothes, they have 2 rock sinks. My family is not poor like many people in the town. Americans have no clue as to what life is like in Mexico or Guatemala

There are 9 ways to get into the country legally and most people from the south don’t qualify for any of those ways. Many of my white neighbors have no clue about how hard it is or that there really is no legal way for them to come here.

I understand that we can only let so many people into the country and I also understand many people are trying to enter legally and they should not be punished and others be rewarded for going about it the wrong way although the people that are already here need to be dealt with and there are families involved, children involved, US Citizens involved and deportation is not always the best solution but putting them in the front of the line is not either.



Such a difficult topic

I will talk to anyone, anywhere about almost anything although I don’t argue as often as I did when I was younger. Now I try to spend more time listening even though it might not seem that way to people who know me especially my wife and children. I have found that trying to change someone’s mind that has a closed one is a lost battle before it begins so I don’t try. Once in a while I will try to interject information that they are not aware of and sometimes that will make them raise an eyebrow but most of the time these people don’t want to know the truth or to know facts that might change the way they feel about issues.


Just mentioning that 1.3 million Mexican farmers were put out of business when the US Started selling corn at a much lower price than the farmers could produce it and telling them that illegal immigration then tripled does not seem to change anyones outlook on the issue.


Pointing out the most recent reliable studies done show that the undocumented people here in the US add much more to the economey than they use in public benefits. The studies show the GNP Gross National Product would be negatively affected in a big way doesn’t change their perspective. Showing them how crime is not any higher because of illegal immigration does not change their minds.


We kinow that along with illegal immigration we do have crime and drugs and human trafficking as well. There are certain facts that stand on their own on both sides of the issue. Most people realize that mass deportation will not work. Many want to handle the problem through attrition by squeezing so hard that the people just leave. Well you have to squeeze very hard to make someone go back to making 1/20th or 1/10th of their current wages. You have to squeeze very hard to make someone want to move back to a country where the police are the ones that pull you over and steal from you. You have to squeeze very hard to make someone go back to a country where is it almost immpossible to provide for their families.



Many people will start out a discussion on immigration by stating, “They are good people and hard workers but they should go back to their countries and come in legally because they are hurting the chances of those that apply legally and they are only being exploited here anyway.” They think that by saying they are good people that it lessens the racism and hate that they show when they call for deportation. The maintain that it has nothing to do with racism. They group these people together and treat them like numbers or objects not like people.


Sounds fairly easy doesn’t it? Send them all back and tell them to get in line, problem solved. Except we are dealing with families that are being separated left and right. When the US deports families they put them in impossible situations, many times fiancially impossible and many times very danergerous situations. The emotional trauma of having your mom arrested when she has not committed a crime stays with a child. The trauma of separating these families hurts and these wounds fester.


People that use this type of logic are not informed people. Many of the Republicans have this type of pat answer to give stating that they have nothing against these people. They say it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with “THE LAW” Really the law is a federal law and if they are caught crossing it is a violation of a Federal Criminal code and it is only a misdemeanor. If they are not caught or if their visa expires then it is only a civil infraction and not criminal. The consequense is deportation and normally a 10 year bar from re-entry (The legal way) To file the proper paperwork is very costly and runs into the thousands very quickly. If you had to chose between feeding your family and a class B misdemeanor can you really say what you would do?


It is sad that they leave the human element out of issue. Let’s look at the life of a friend of mine just for an example:


My friend Javier came to the US a few years ago with a valid visa and he brought 2 children with him and began working and had 2 additional children. Their visa would not be renewed and they moved to a new state and started a new life. He works two jobs and his wife stays home with the children. He owns two homes and rents one out. He pays property taxes on both of these homes and much of the property tax goes to pay for education which also includes the education of his children. He uses a false social security card and has FICA, Federal and State taxes taken out of his check which he will never get back.(He is one of the millions that pay billions into these tax funds) He has a leadership calling in the LDS Church, a current Temple recommend and is normally the first one to offer help when someone is in trouble. If he goes to the Immigration office he will be deported with his wife and two of the four children.


He can take the other two children with him but in Guatemala there is a $34 dollar per US Citizen charge for every month US Citizens stay in Guatemala after 90 days so that would be $68 dollars per month and wages in his area area are about $100 so that would leave him $32 dollars a month to raise his family or it would leave him $132 if he worked two jobs and the cost of living in his area is about $500 per month and that is without a car but only taking the bus and riding your bike. So his wife would also have to go to work and they they would still make less than half of the cost of living. Does he go back to his country? Should he leave his 2 US Citizen children with friends so they can grow up and have a better life and petition the rest of the family when they are 21? When the oldest child that is 12 gets to be 21 in 9 years then it will take another 9-12 years to get the family back here. By that time 20 years will have passed and living in extreem poverty ages you much faster and after having lived in the US going back is that much harder since you are used to flushing toilets, hot water, paved streets, medical facilties that are decent and enough money to buy basic food.


Oh, he does have another option, the two older kids can quit school and work at the sugar cane farm and make about $45 each child so with him working 2 jobs, his wife working one and 2 of the kids working he will make just over half of the cost of living. That sounds fine right, make the kids stop school early to help provide for the families needs.


The other option is for him to stay in the US, continue working for less than he is worth because he has a college degree and makes just over min in one 40 hour job and he make min. wage at the part time 30 hour job but it still comes out to making many times more than he would back home.


I go over these types of stories over and over in my mind and wonder what would be reasonable. What is the solution? A fine? Allowing them to get in line behind those that have applied legally? Allow the families to stay together unless criminal involvment was part of the mix? A national ID card that has the fingerprints and eyescans in a smart chip? I don’t know.


I do know that I am biased because my family is one of these families being separated so I feel very strongly about being compassionate and reasonable. I know my kids cry all the time when we start to talk about immigration. We try to ignore it but it is very hard to ignore the big pink elephant in the middle of the room when ICE (Immigration) agents are out front of the home watching our house.


I do see both sides since I am in the construction industry. I hear about TX tile setters that bid jobs out at $15 per hour and can’t get them because companies are using undocumented tile setters and paying them less than minimum so that hurts the industry and home owners do get lower priced tile but not only are people being exploited but companies are suffering. What is the answer? I don’t feel the answer is an AZ type law so we must work together to find a solution that also considers the human element. A law that considers families, childrens needs, the safety of the people and a balance of what will be good for the US as well. I write these things out and hardly anyone ever reads them but it is a way for me to outline the logic and deal with it.


In 1898, the meaning of the citizenship clause (14th Amendment) was conclusively determined in Wong Kim Ark, when the Supreme Court rejected arguments that the son of a Chinese national – who was forbidden under the Chinese Exclusion Act from ever becoming U.S. citizens – should be deprived of citizenship because of his parents’ status. Subsequent decisions have upheld this standard.


The ‘rule of law’ crowd claim the United States is outdated in providing birthright citizenship. Recently, Glenn Beck and Bob Dane of FAIR have said, that the U.S. is “the only country in the world” or at least the only “western country” where birthright guarantees citizenship. Neither is true: the U.S. is among 33 other countries—including Canada—that practice jus soli (grant birthright citizenship).

What about ilegal did Susan B Anthony not understand?

In the 1800s, women in the United States had few legal rights and did not have the right to vote. This speech was given by Susan B. Anthony after her arrest for casting an illegal vote in the presidential election of 1872. She was tried and then fined $100 but refused to pay.


Friends and fellow citizens: I stand before you tonight under indictment for the alleged crime of having voted at the last presidential election, without having a lawful right to vote. It shall be my work this evening to prove to you that in thus voting, I not only committed no crime, but, instead, simply exercised my citizen’s rights, guaranteed to me and all United States citizens by the National Constitution, beyond the power of any state to deny.

The preamble of the Federal Constitution says:


“We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”


It was we, the people; not we, the white male citizens; nor yet we, the male citizens; but we, the whole people, who formed the Union. And we formed it, not to give the blessings of liberty, but to secure them; not to the half of ourselves and the half of our posterity, but to the whole people – women as well as men. And it is a downright mockery to talk to women of their enjoyment of the blessings of liberty while they are denied the use of the only means of securing them provided by this democratic-republican government – the ballot.


For any state to make sex a qualification that must ever result in the disfranchisement of one entire half of the people, is to pass a bill of attainder, or, an ex post facto law, and is therefore a violation of the supreme law of the land. By it the blessings of liberty are forever withheld from women and their female posterity.


To them this government has no just powers derived from the consent of the governed. To them this government is not a democracy. It is not a republic. It is an odious aristocracy; a hateful oligarchy of sex; the most hateful aristocracy ever established on the face of the globe; an oligarchy of wealth, where the rich govern the poor. An oligarchy of learning, where the educated govern the ignorant, or even an oligarchy of race, where the Saxon rules the African, might be endured; but this oligarchy of sex, which makes father, brothers, husband, sons, the oligarchs over the mother and sisters, the wife and daughters, of every household – which ordains all men sovereigns, all women subjects, carries dissension, discord, and rebellion into every home of the nation.


Webster, Worcester, and Bouvier all define a citizen to be a person in the United States, entitled to vote and hold office.


The only question left to be settled now is: Are women persons? And I hardly believe any of our opponents will have the hardihood to say they are not. Being persons, then, women are citizens; and no state has a right to make any law, or to enforce any old law, that shall abridge their privileges or immunities. Hence, every discrimination against women in the constitutions and laws of the several states is today null and void, precisely as is every one against Negroes.


Susan B. Anthony – 1873


The men that arrested Susan clearly were right to do so according to the law and the law was clearly wrong as she points out. She stood up for what she believed in and she was educated enough to articulate her views and had enough courage to stand up for what she felt was an injustice. I suppose some people would refer to Susan as a criminal and some people would refer to our founding fathers as traitors to England and criminals as well.


I don’t suggest that illegal immigration is right nor do I say people should come over illegally although those that are here should be treated with dignity and we should pass reasonable reform so as not to separate families since we are we are currently doing it at a higher rate than ever before.


Some would questions the constitution and say that the 14th amendment is wrong. They say it only applied to the children of the slaves yet every state recognizes all children born in the US as US Citizens. Every state issues birth certificates and the Federal Government issues SS# to these children.


I would say we should be reasonable and remember these are people we are dealing with and not objects. Refering to them as anchor babies only shows our lack of sensitivity and lack of civility.  No police department in the Nation enforces Civil Federal Law and “Unlawful Presense” is only a Civil infraction. ICE does not have the names and addresses of millions of undocumented people therefore they cannot legally arrest them without warrants or deportation orders. We don’t even know how many undocumented people there really are within the US. We need to ID them, give them permission to work as guest workers, have them get in the back of the line and not be ahead of anyone that has applied legally but sending them all back will separate millions of US Citizens from their families and also cause untold financial problems for the country. We should concentrate on deporting the real criminals that are felons.

Life in the love home in 2010

What a great year we had in 2010 and now we look forward to a productive 2011.  In Aug I brought Michelle home from Guatemala and now she is about to get her braces off, and Jr will be getting his put on next month although he won’t be going to Guatemala in order to do that this time.  Michelle just turned 15 last month and Josh turned 17. (now that this is published Michelle is 16, Josue is 18, Kaneasha is married to Josh Hess with a new baby named parker) Kaneasha got engaged in 2010 and will be getting married this year most likely in June just before her 21st birthday. Tory Sheyn is still working as assistant Store Director for Freshmarket Stores and has been there since he was 15 years old and he is 23 now soon to be 24.


This past year we have tried several different types of foods in our home and been to different culture events as well including music programs, dancing functions with culture dances and programs with instruments and singing. I also was able to sing at the rest home around the corner although not all of the residents appreciated it. When I asked if they liked the music I got honest answers. I think some of them wanted to go back to watching TV. lol.


I remember going to a rest home as a young man to take the Church Service to them and one lady kept yelling “Play the music, Play the Music” another woman was saying “SHH SHHH” over and over and at the same time a man was louding telling them both to shut up all during the religious service that was suppose to be reverent.


Being a State Delegate for the second time has also been very rewarding along with serving as the Chairman of the Alarm Systems Board for the Division of Occupational Licensing. I also sit as a commissioner on the Construction Trades Commission as well although in March I will have to step down since I have been in the position for several years now. This past year I have taught CERT classes both in English and in Spanish and it was been very enjoyable.


In 2010 I also got a summons to jury duty which will begin Jan 6. Michelle and I attended a meeting in the Governors mansion this year together and she got to meet him and shake his hand. We went bowling just before Christmas as a family and I think Michelle liked that better than the meeting at the mansion.


We are still working with the Government System and at last count we had filled out 21 immigration forms and from our count sent almost ten thousand pages of documents and $4000 in fees not counting lawyer fees to the US Government since March of 2009. (updated as of 2012 we have sent 29 forms in and we did get a visa after much work and over 12,000 dollars in forms and lawyer fees ) The last set of forms was 410 pages each and it was sent to two locations. (810 pages with one form not counting the 410 pages we had to make for ourselves to keep in the file ) I keep asking myself why USCIS and ICE can’t scan the documents and then not require that the same ones be sent in over and over but I suppose they have a reasonable reason for requiring us to  waste so many trees. Marriage does not solve immigration issues although we like to keep hope alive since the alternative is depressing. Lizeth has a very positive attitude.


A couple of months ago Michelle and I began going to the gym together on MWF and running and walking. Before that we had been running but it got too cold to run outside. Michelle is at City Academy and Jr (Osmar) is at Bryant. Osmar danced in two of the culture dances his school had and we were totally impressed with the program. (Osmar danced in his program again this year 2012 and we enjoyed going to see him and all the culture dances.) Michelle also danced in her school program as well. We remembered watching Josh dance in the school programs as well. Kaneasha has been attending college in Idaho and will soon move back to Utah. So these are a few of the things that have been happening in the Love home. We wish everyone a wonderful productive new year. Thank you to all of you that have been part of our lives.  This past year we have found that joy is found in service and striving to do things the right way.